Ozma

... double post... oops, sorry.

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fingerslikedaggers

yeah i see were you are coming from, christian is not the musical genre so i dont know why they would put it there. however, calling it christian does not restrict the genre (at least if it is truly about the music). non christians can listen to christian music. christians can listen to non christian music.

and blindside is definitely not hxc. however, some good hxc bands that are christian are: in due time, xdeathstarx, seventh star

and i also i agree about it being a fad. many non christian bands say they are christian to gain recognition and stuff. which isnt cool.

Lysol

Their second album "A thought crushed my mind" (almost their only good album) is often classified as hardcore.

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Ozma

i'm glad you're getting my point... most of it anyway:P but i still disagree a little. see, i DO believe it is restricting the genre. Since you're connecting a music genre and its sound to a religious belief! If some band were to play the EXACT same music as "as cities burn" but instead of being christians they would be muslims, is that "islam-hardcore" or what? Can't they play the same music as them just beacause they have another belief? I just don't get the expression. it's like some christians WANT to exclude their music from other music with purpose, but they get the music from people who are not christians:P Why not just talk about the music and then talk about the lyrics as two separate things. In most hardcore you don't even hear the lyrics anyway:P

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fingerslikedaggers

yeah dude, i understand what you are saying. i am sure that is not as cities burn's intention, absolutly positive. but what you wrote makes a lot of sense. just take it from me, someone who is an open christian and a lover of music, that it is not their intention. but after reading your post, i definitely see where you can get that point of veiw, i just never had realized it.

Ozma

yeah i'm positive too they didn't mean that. Most often it is not the bands who name genres it's journalists and fans of the music. So it's probably some christian journalist or fan or something who made up the term.

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Lysol

The best ending in a discussion I've seen in a veeeery long time. But really, I find it hard to NOT agree with Ozmas previous post.

Yeah, it's very often journalists that makes up the names of genres, especially the worst, most useless genres.

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Figure8

You're taking what I said completely out of context, i'm not proposing christian hardcore be its in own genre. I'm calling it christian hardcore because thats exactly what it is, hardcore with christian beliefs. Anyway genres expand, hardcore has to metalcore, emo, post-hardcore etc. Its ignorant to think the genre is always going to be Black Flag and never change.

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Lysol

I don't quite agree with you there. Yes, hardcore has expanded to metalcore, emo, post-hardcore, and so on, but then why has also hardcore itself changed? If some of the genres that evolved from hardcore got new genres (metalcore, for example), why didn't the stuff that we call hardcore today got their own genres too then? I think there's too many genres today, but I find it illogical that post-hardcore, emo, metalcore, etc. got their own new genres, and bands like refused took over the real hardcore genre.

Also, the christian hardcore thing, I don't think he was refering to your thought about christian hardcore, but just the genre itself. Because it IS a genre; Christian hardcore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Ozma

thanks for explaining that for me lysol

Figure8, i know the genre has expanded but what nowadays is called "hardcore" (not talking about christian hardcore, emo, post-hardcore) is NOT hardcore. how can something that USED to be black flag and minor threat turn in to Refused and rise against? (didn't think rise against was even a punk band, according to me they're not, but wikipedia says they're melodic hardcore and others here on IRT seems to think they are as well).

The expanding of the genre and the new sub genres shouldn't change the meaning of the word "hardcore" i can accept expressions like "metalcore" and "emo" (even though i think the names themselves doesn't really represent the music and emo is just fucking dumb) but what i can't accept is people using the title "hardcore" for every band that has screaming vocals and weird beats. nowadays hardcore is a almost like a sub genre to death metal instead of being a sub genre to punk (which it is).

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fingerslikedaggers

well put man. what do you think of terror and madball.

Ozma

Not that in to hardcore. Espacially not hardcore from the last decade:P i do like the 80s hardcore though, like madball but i can't say i have listened to them enough to talk about them. i'm really not THAT in to hardcore. but i do know a thing or two about the scene (back in the eighties).

i DO like Black Flag and Bad brains a lot. Lately i've been starting to listen more to both of them. but they were the biggest bands of them all so i guess i'm no fun for a real straight edge hardcorer!:P

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fingerslikedaggers

yeah im not that much of a hardcore guy either. like im not edge, but i do enjoy a few hardcore bands. i saw terror and thought they were pretty good. it really gets repeatative though. im more of a indie or metal guy myself. havent listened to much blackflag but ill check them out.

Figure8

Yeah but theres ton of bands like Between the Bars playing hardcore more to its roots, and how you could hear Rise Against (ignoring the last two albums) and not consider them hardcore is beyond me. Genres DO expand, its not like anyone is saying because UnderOATH is a form of hardcore that Black Flag isn't hardcore anymore.

I'm kind of expressing myself terribly here, sorry. Homework + being tired = not good frame of mind to try and post. =P

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Ozma

i know black flag is still hardcore and you're right genres do change and expand. But the difference between bands we call hardcore now a days and what was called hardcore in the eighties is so big it CAN'T POSSIBLY be the same genre. listen to this band: MySpace.com - war from a harlots mouth [ALBUM OUT NOW us / can] - Berlin - Hardcore / Jazz / Grindcore - www.myspace.com/warfromaharlotsmouth (great band, but this still shows my point) and compare their music to Black flag or bad brains, or minor threat or whatever. War from harlots mouth ARE saying that they are some kind of crossover between hardcore, grindcore and jazz but still: WHERES the hardcore in their music? their not playing punk? Hardcore IS a subgenre to punk. Mixed with grindcore; you wouldn't notice any fucking difference since grindcore IS playing hardcore extremely fast and mixing it with growl.

see my point? when hardcore is mixed with metal. Theres other names for that, you have the thrash and speed-metal genre who gets some of their inspiration from hardcore-punk, you got grindcore and so on. Hardcore-punk itself should still BE hardcore punk! Wheres the punk in these later bands? I only hear wierd tempos and screaming, sounds more like progressive metal mixed with death-metal with a more screaming type of growl.

About rise against: I got to admit i was referring to the two latest albums. don't know much about them, but people still call them punk and even that is fucked up.

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